All Queries:
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Werner Jaeger,
Paideia (Oxford:
1936).
Should this year be 1945, 1947, or 1936? See
this source link.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Does someone have access to this text (
Social Origins by Arthur M. Hocart) who can verify this point and citation?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Third-millennium BC Mesopotamian land-sale records reported that buyers stipulated to provide a meal for the sellers as part of the transfer price (Melul 1988).
Can you help us identify this text (Melul 1988) so we can add a full citation footnote and bibliographical note?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Translation Check
Quoted text:
Egalitarian social philosophers through the ages have sought to relate the Greek word “dais” to the idea of equally dividing food and drink among the guests.
Can someone familiar with ancient Greek verify the spelling of
dais? (Originally several places in this and the next paragraph were spelled “dias” instead of “dais” before we made them all “dais.”)
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Translation Check
Quoted text:
Homer called banquets “equal” “because of the equality observed. Dinners were called
daites from
dateisthai, ‘to divide,’ and wine as well as meat was equally apportioned.” Thus the
Odyssey (8.98) stated, “By this time we had satisfied our souls with the equal feast.”
Zenodotus believed that Homer “calls it ‘equal,’ using an extended form of the word,”
aisa for the more usual
iso. “And so the meal is called
dais from
daiesthai, ‘divide,’ that is, to distribute in equal portions; and the roaster of meat is
daitros, or ‘divider,’ because he gave an equal portion to everybody.”
Can someone familiar with ancient Greek verify the spelling (
dateisthai first, and
daiesthai later in the paragraph)?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Translation Check
Quoted text:
Example 1:
aisa for the more usual iso
Example 2:
“
aisa”
Can someone familiar with ancient Greek verify the spelling? See
this link. This repeats in the next paragraph too; please check that usage too.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Plutarch (
Table Talk 643f.) contrasted these “portion banquets” of Homer and the early democracies with the dinners of his own imperial Roman period in which each guest helped himself from the group pot. The democratic spokesman defended egalitarian meals by pointing out that the equal division of servings and their distribution by lot minimized the resentment individuals were liable to feel when others took more than their fair share. “Those who eat from the dishes that belong to all antagonize those who are slow and are left behind, as it were, in the wake of the swift-sailing ship. For suspicion, grabbing, snatching, and elbowing among the guests do not, I think, make a friendly and convivial prelude to a banquet; such behavior is boorish and crude and often ends in insults and angry outbursts aimed not only at fellow guests, but at waiters and at hosts.” Quoting a pre-Socratic fragment—“Where each guest has his own private portion, companionship perishes”—Plutarch concluded: “This is true where there is not an equitable distribution; for… the taking of another’s portion, and greed for what is common to all, began injustice and strife. The laws hold this in check by limiting and moderating private rights, and their very name [
nomoi] they owe to their office and power of equitable distribution [
viz. Nemesis] in regard to what is common to all.”
Can someone please find an online source(s) for these quotations that we can add, and check the quotations and their citation details for accuracy?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Vase paintings depict guests with equal servings, eating and drinking out of identical dishes and cups (Durand and Schnapp
[2] 1989:
p. 56,
Hocart[3] 1970: p. 69, and Illustration 6.1).
The Hocart 1970 citation (Arthur M. Hocart,
Kings and Councillors (Chicago: 1970 [1936]),
p. 69) appears to be incorrect based on the contents at
this source; can you help us to figure out what book or edition it might be, to verify our citation?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Missing Illustration
Quoted text:
Vase paintings depict guests with equal servings, eating and drinking out of identical dishes and cups (Durand and Schnapp
[4] 1989:
p. 56, Hocart
[5] 1970:
p. 69, and
Illustration 6.1).
Can you help us find this illustration? This might refer to something on a page near the vase painting on page 56 of this source (if you can’t see the page preview, it’s free to Borrow if you click at the top on Internet Archive). It’s not the “identical dishes and cups” described by the author, but it might be nearby…
Any image suggested for inclusion in
The Creation of Order must be licensed under
Creative Commons 4.0 or in the public domain if it is to be embedded in the chapter. If it is not CC4.0 or PD, please suggest a link to somewhere externally readers might find the correct image. Please include a source link and attribution information for any image suggestion (Wikimedia Commons links are preferred if available).
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Spelling of Term
Quoted text:
“Each person will have an equal share, without special distinction. The cuisine of sacrifice means first of all equal access to the common supply of meat, an
alimentary democracy.”
[6]
The original text used the word “elementary” in
the edition we found. But “alimentary” makes sense; can you help us verify if a later edition made a correction?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
“a social space both circular and central… To place something ‘in the middle’ is the act on which egalitarian practices are based, whose field of application extends in the warriors’ world to voting assemblies, the organization of funeral games, and the sharing of loot” (Detienne and Svenbro
[7] 1989: p. 151).
Can someone with access to this text, page 151, verify the quotation? (It’s not available on
Google Books.)
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Politics (VII.12), Aristotle recommended that “Buildings devoted to the service of the gods, and the chief feeding-places of members of committees, should have a suitable position on the same site,” unless the Delphic oracle directs the contrary. For “the government of the state being divided into officials and priests, it is right that the latter too should have their eating-places established round the sacred buildings.”
Please verify this quotation and its citation. Add a source link to a similar translation if possible.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
In the Iliad (20.15) Poseidon, “even though he came last to the assembly, ‘took his seat in the middle,’ implying that this place belonged to him. And Athena is always seen to occupy the place of honor beside Zeus.”
Can you help us identify a link to this text online so we can fully cite it (and check its citation details)? It was not in the Bibliography provided for this chapter. Add a source link to a similar translation if possible.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Plutarch (Table Talk 617c) concluded that the mortal host who ignored this principle and failed to assign his guests to their proper places at the table “turns an individual’s prerogative (each man’s according to his worth) into common property,” committing a theft of “the recognition due to virtue, kinship, public service, and such things… Though he thinks that he avoids being offensive to his guests, he… offends each one of them by depriving him of his accustomed honor.”
Can you help us identify a link to this text online so we can fully cite it (and check its citation details)? It was not in the Bibliography provided for this chapter. Add a source link to a similar translation if possible.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Interchapter Query
Quoted text:
Originally this was written as: “the Hermes/Mercury figure familiar from Chapter 4 with regard to writing, and Chapter 5 with regard to music. (He reappears in an urban context in Chapter 9.)” but we removed the Chapter 4–5 part of the original phrase because Chapter 4 is a stub that did not discuss this, and Chapter 5 does not discuss this either; if you can suggest content and locations and transitions to add discussions of Hermes/Mercury to Chapter 4 and Chapter 5 so we could add that back here with a link to Chapter 4 and 5 respectively, that would be helpful.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Citation Needed
Quoted text:
Aristotle stated that the Greek verb “
methu,” “to get drunk,” derives from the use of wine after sacrifice.
Citation needed.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Citation Needed
Quoted text:
“Apollo’s portion (and that of other gods) was the fat, bones, and some cuts of the less choice meat.”
Can you help us find a source/citation for this quotation? Maybe it’s in Renfrew (1988), which we couldn’t get access to (Jane M. Renfrew, “Food for Athletes and Gods: A Classical Diet,” in Wendy J. Raschke [ed.],
The Archaeology of the Olympics [Madison, Wisconsin: 1988], pp. 174–181.).
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Renfrew
[8] (1988) noted that such games helped bring into being a food market and catalyze the use of money. Victors celebrated by hosting private festivities in the evenings, and for other meals, “There was no shortage of local people anxious to earn a few
drachmas by hiring out tents, mules, and donkeys, selling food and drink, and providing entertainment for the crowds when the Games were not in progress.”
Can someone with access to Renfrew (1988) (in Raschke [1988]) verify this quotation, and add a page number to our citation if possible?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
In the
Iliad (
23.740–751) Achilles posted as rewards for his runners a silver krater in which to mix wine and water, a fattened ox, and a half-
talent of gold (Puhvel
[9] 1988: p. 30). “Achilles’ first prize for horse racing was a woman plus tripod, followed by an untamed horse, a cauldron, two
talents of gold, and a bowl (
Iliad 23.262–270). The wrestling champion got a tripod valued at twelve heads of cattle, and to the loser went a woman worth a mere four (
Iliad 23.702–705). Cattle were thus a form of value unit, and so were sheep, as in many other cultures,”
Can someone with access to Puhvel (1988) (in Raschke [1988]) verify this quotation, and add a page number to our citation if possible?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
The earliest deciphered cuneiform records (dating from the
Fara period c. 2600 BC in Sumer) reported that land transfers were “concluded by means of a meal, the victuals for which were supplied by the buyer,” and at which one party supplied a garment to the other (Malul
[10] 1988: p. 363 discussing Koschaker
[11] 1942).
Can someone with access to the Malul and Koschaker texts verify this point, the quotation, and the citation details?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
This usually took the form of presents—“articles of clothing and food items, such as oil, barley, dates, and the like” (Malul
[12] 1988: pp. 366ff., 372).
[13]
Can someone with access to the Malul text verify this point, the quotation, and the citation details?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Spelling of Term
Quoted text:
Compensation “prices” were inscribed in Mesopotamia’s public laws beginning with
Urukagina’s “reform text” c. 2350 BC, which specified the number of loaves of bread due to ritual priests for conducting marriage and burial ceremonies. Ultimately such payments were monetized.
Originally this was spelled “Uruinimgina’s” before we changed it to “Urukagina’s” to match Chapter 3 and elsewhere. Perhaps this is how it is spelled in the Malul text (can someone with access to that text check?) (Meir Malul,
Studies in Mesopotamian Legal Symbolism [Neukirchen-Vluyn: 1988])? Do you know if there is a significance in the difference of spelling that means we should undo our change here?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Translation Check
Quoted text:
Laum
[14] (1924: p. 56) found it to stem from their sacred role as sacrificial animals, above all at group meals. He suggested that the term “
obelos”—at first the instrument of sacrifice—symbolized the head of livestock, or in time its commutation payment in monetary form. Such contributions helped establish market values. Money thus did not begin as a means of barter, much less coinage. “The clan,” he asserted (1929
[15]: p. 41), “divided the sacrifice as its most important political act.” He concluded that it would be wrong to follow Herodotus in tracing the idea of
nomos (“law”) to the division of land
Can someone with access to Laum (1924) and Laum (1929), ideally who can read German, verify this point, quotation, and citation set?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Translation Check
Quoted text:
Laum
[16] (1924: pp. 27ff., 158f.) found that whereas “Secular exchange is almost always free and unmeasured, it is the exchange between gods and men that is first regulated by specific norms.”
Can someone with access to Laum (1924), ideally who can read German, verify this point, quotation, and citation?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
“Wine was drunk both at the meal and afterward, often in an undue quantity; and the close of the feast was apt to be a scene of general turmoil and confusion,” such as was described by
Xenophon (
Cyrop. I.3) and Herodotus (I.133).
Please help us verify the quotation and citations so we can add a footnote/footnotes and bibliographic note(s). Add a link/links if available.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Missing Illustration
Quoted text:
…as
Aratus says.”
[Omitted text: See Illustration 6.2 from W. Wroth, Cat. xiv. Pl. ix.15: a coin of Cyzicus with tripods and stars]
Originally there was a note about an illustration here:
says [see Illustration 6.2 from W. Wroth, Cat. xiv. Pl. ix.15: a coin of Cyzicus with tripods and stars].”
But we don’t know what text this is and can use help with a full citation as well as finding the image.
Can you help us find this illustration online, or something like it (if the rights for reprinting are unavailable)?
Note: It’s also possible this was supposed to be a repetition of Illustration 6.1 because the text originally said “Illustration 6.” without a second number, but we assumed this is a new illustration requested rather than 6.1 again.
Any image suggested for inclusion in
The Creation of Order must be licensed under
Creative Commons 4.0 or in the public domain if it is to be embedded in the chapter. If it is not CC4.0 or PD, please suggest a link to somewhere externally readers might find the correct image. Please include a source link and attribution information for any image suggestion (Wikimedia Commons links are preferred if available).
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
As part of this cosmologizing we find the Pythagorean proverb, “Drink five or three, not four.”
Can you help us add a source for this, with a link?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Plutarch (
Table Talk at 657) explained this as follows. Just as the musical ratio of 3:2 “gives a concord to the fifth, 2:1 the concord of the octave, and the concord of the fourth (which is weakest) consists in the ratio 4:3, so the musicologists of
Dionysus observed three concords of wine and water, fifth, third and fourth. … ‘Five,’ indeed, is in the ratio 3:2, three parts of water being mixed with two of wine. … The mixture with a ratio of 2:3 is most harmonious, a complete inducer of sleep and relaxer of care, a ‘protecting and soothing governess,’ in Hesiod’s phrase [
Works and Days 464], because it creates a profound calm and quiet among our lordly and disordered passions.” (The ratio “three” signifies “two parts of water being mixed with one of wine; and ‘four,’ three parts water per unit of wine,”
Can you help us add a linked source for this Plutarch excerpt?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Fact Check
Quoted text:
the Pythagorean proverb, “Drink five or three, not four.” Plutarch (
Table Talk at 657) explained this as follows. Just as the musical ratio of 3:2 “gives a concord to the fifth, 2:1 the concord of the octave, and the concord of the fourth (which is weakest) consists in the ratio 4:3, so the musicologists of
Dionysus observed three concords of wine and water, fifth, third and fourth. … ‘Five,’ indeed, is in the ratio 3:2, three parts of water being mixed with two of wine. … The mixture with a ratio of 2:3 is most harmonious, a complete inducer of sleep and relaxer of care, a ‘protecting and soothing governess,’ in Hesiod’s phrase [
Works and Days 464], because it creates a profound calm and quiet among our lordly and disordered passions.” (The ratio “three” signifies “two parts of water being mixed with one of wine; and ‘four,’ three parts water per unit of wine,” an overly sober drink.) Such quasimusical philosophizing over moderation in drink indicates the desire to find objective and celestial ordering principles that could be applied to human behavior.
Can someone with a musical background check this concept?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Aristotle (384–322 BC) devoted three chapters of his Politics (Book I, Chapters 8–10) to economic and financial matters.
Can you help us check this citation and range? It was originally written “Chs. 810” and we added the en dash, but we can’t find the exact text that divided the work into chapters.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
“There are many different kinds of food, and that means many different ways of life, both for animals and humans. … Some animals live in herds and others scattered about, whichever helps them to find food.”
Can you help us verify the quotation and identify and add a citation (linked if possible) for Aristotle’s
Politics here?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
The “natural” mode of acquisition, continued Aristotle, was to produce use values directly. “One form then of property-getting is, in accordance with nature, a part of household management” in the sense that the household (oikos) produced its own basic needs. Agricultural and pastoral economies had no need to trade to obtain their food. According to Aristotle, natural wealth was defined in terms of its use value, as “a collection of tools for use in the administration of a household or a state. … wealth and the acquisition of goods by nature, and belonging to household-management (oikonomos).”
Can you help us verify the quotation and identify and add a citation (linked if possible) for Aristotle’s
Politics here?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Translation Check
Quoted text:
chrematistike
Can someone with Greek language familiarity verify the spelling of this word throughout the paragraph (twice used)?
See also
the same query in the Epilogue chapter.
Note: It’s called “chrematistics” in the
Epilogue chapter outside the context of this quotation, which is repeated there.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
“associated with trade (chrematistike), which is not productive of goods in the full sense but only through their exchange. … All those engaged in acquiring goods go on increasing their coin without limit… the end is sheer increase”
Can you help us verify the quotation and identify and add a citation (linked if possible) for Aristotle’s
Politics here?
See also
the same query in the Epilogue chapter.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Missing Quotation Mark
Quoted text:
“Some people imagine that increase is a function of household management (oikonomos).”
We guessed at where the close-quotation mark should be added. Can you verify or correct its placement?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
“No bound is set on riches for men.” He concluded that “Some people imagine that increase is a function of household management (oikonomos).” Some people likewise “are eager for life, but not for the good life; so, desire for life being unlimited, they desire also in unlimited amount what enables life to go on. These people turn all skills into skills of acquiring… [money], as though that were the end and everything had to serve that end.”
Can you help us verify the quotation and identify and add a citation (linked if possible) for Aristotle’s
Politics here?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
“And it will often happen that a man with wealth in the form of coined money will not have enough to eat; and what a ridiculous kind of wealth is that which even in abundance will not save you from dying with hunger!”
Can you help us verify the quotation and identify and add a citation (linked if possible) for Aristotle’s
Politics here?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Citation Needed
Quoted text:
“proclaimed equity and freedom.”
Can you help us identify what text this quotation is from and check the quotation and cite it (ideally with a source link)?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
in Politics II.7, Aristotle suggested that adjustments should reflect and reward honor and accomplishment, and also take account of the number of children for whom the property-holder was responsible.
Can you help us verify the passage and citation details for Aristotle’s
Politics here (ideally with a source link)?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Aristotle concluded (Politics I.10), “is fully justified, for the gain arises out of currency itself, not as a product of that for which currency was provided. Coinage was intended to be a means of exchange, whereas interest represents an increase in the currency itself. Hence its name, tokos (‘offspring’), for each animal produces its like, and interest is currency born of currency. And so of all types of business this is the most contrary to nature.”
Can you help us verify the quotation and citation details for Aristotle’s
Politics here (ideally with a source link)?
See also
the same query in the Epilogue chapter.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Citation Needed
Quoted text:
well-known mottos of Greek philosophy: “Neither too much nor too little,” “Step not over the beam of the balance,” or simply “Avoid and hate all mean advantage, and seek for equality.”
If you know precise sources for any of these axioms (ideally with source links), let us know.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Aristotle’s view (Constitution of Athens 5.2f.)
Can you help us verify this citation? We found this Aristotle source at
this link, but it did not appear at first glance to be relevant.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Spelling of Term
Quoted text:
Check spelling:
Blepyrus per
Wikipedia;
Blepyros as it is written originally by the author here and per
the source cited at this link: E. David,
Aristophanes and Athenian Society of the Early Fourth Century BC (
Mnemosyne suppl. Leiden: 1984),
p. 12.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Aristotle (Politics II.7 at 1267a) recognized that men commit the most serious crimes because “their aims are extravagant, not just to provide themselves with necessities. Who ever heard of a man making himself a dictator in order to keep warm?”
Can you help us verify the quotation and citation details (linked if possible) for Aristotle’s
Politics here?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Aristotle agreed (Politics II.6 at 1265b): “poverty produces faction and crime.” He concluded (VI.5 at 1320a) that “the duty of a true democrat is to see that the population is not destitute,” for this corrupts democracy.
Can you help us verify the quotations and citation details (linked if possible) for Aristotle’s
Politics here?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
As Plutarch’s
Table Talk (II.10 at 644) observed: “The custom of distributing portions of the meat was abandoned when dinners became extravagant; for it was not possible, I suppose, to divide fancy cakes and
Lydian puddings and rich sauces and all sorts of other dishes made of ground and grated delicacies; these luxurious dainties got the better of men and the custom of an equal share for all was abandoned.”
Can you help us verify the quotation and citation details (linked if possible)?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Fact Check
Quoted text:
The Great Games lasted from September 519 BC until the first century BC.
Can you check this fact? Per
Fowler 1909 on p. 291, “Ludi Romani” lasted “from September 5 to September 19 in Cicero’s time” (first century BC). But we don’t see anything about 519 BC and aren’t sure what that’s referring to. Originally this sentence was written, before our edits:
By the first century BC the Great Games lasted from September 519 BC.
The idea seems to be that the “Great Games” were religious and thus free, and lasted from the early Roman Empire until the first century BC when Tiberius Gracchus made the public pay for them. But this is only a hypothesis based on the following paragraphs.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Citation Needed
Quoted text:
Aristotle wrote of the city of Methone: “There were two parasites for each magistrate, and one for each military office; they received regular contributions from certain other persons, and particularly fish from the fisherman.”
Citation needed. Can you provide a full citation including source link?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Missing Quotation Mark
Quoted text:
Attic Dialect,
Crates wrote that “in earlier times parasite was the name given to those who were chosen to select the sacred grain, and there was a special repository for their use. Wherefore, in the royal code the following also stands written:
‘He who is king shall see that the magistrates are appointed and that the parasites are chosen from the demes according to the statutes. And the parasites are to select, each from his own share in the king’s office, eight quarts of barley, and those Athenians who are in the sacred precinct are to be feasted therewith according to ancestral custom.’”
We guessed at where the phrase inside single quotation marks ends. Can you help us verify the close–single quotation mark is in the right spot, or should it be earlier?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Attic Dialect,
Crates wrote that “in earlier times parasite was the name given to those who were chosen to select the sacred grain, and there was a special repository for their use. Wherefore, in the royal code the following also stands written: ‘He who is king shall see that the magistrates are appointed and that the parasites are chosen from the
demes according to the statutes. And the parasites are to select, each from his own share in the king’s office, eight quarts of barley, and those Athenians who are in the sacred precinct are to be feasted therewith according to ancestral custom.’”
Can you help us find a link to a citation for this quotation and verify the quotation text against the original so we can add a footnote and bibliographic note (with source link)?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Add a Section
See the
General Queries page for Chapter 6 in the section on Herodotus for more about omitted text about Herodotus here.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Interchapter Query
Quoted text:
Later sections will explore how ancient communities
divided themselves into tribal fractions, and also cover how individuals who could not fit into these family-based structures—because of infirmity, loss of parents, poverty, or simply because of their alien birth—were set aside as public workers.
If Chapter 8 is fleshed out and this is added, change this sentence back to how it was originally written:
Chapter 7 will explore how ancient communities divided themselves into tribal fractions. Chapter 8 reviews how individuals who could not fit into these family-based structures—because of infirmity, loss of parents, poverty, or simply because of their alien birth—were set aside as public workers.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Interchapter Query
Quoted text:
Later sections will explore how ancient communities
divided themselves into tribal fractions, and also cover
how individuals who could not fit into these family-based structures—because of infirmity, loss of parents, poverty, or simply because of their alien birth—were set aside as public workers.
This is meant to be included in
Chapter 8. Can you help us include that there?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Libor Matous, “Zu den Ausdrucken fur ‘Zugaben’ in den vorsargonischen Grundstuck-kaufurkunden,” Archiv Orientalni, Vol. 22 (1954), pp. 434–443.
Can someone verify the spelling of the name and accuracy of this citation?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Jean Puhvel, “Hittite Athletics as Prefigurations of Ancient Greek Games,” in Wendy J. Raschke (ed.), The Archaeology of the Olympics (Madison, Wisconsin: 1988), pp. 26–31.
Can you verify the spelling of the author’s name as Jean Puhvel? It is possible Jaan Puhvel was meant (see Chapter 9’s Bibliography, Chapter 12’s Bibliography and footnotes, and the book’s Bibliography chapter for sections for Chapter 9 and Chapter 12: Jaan Puhvel, “The Origins of Greek Kosmos and Latin Mundus,” American Journal of Philology, Vol. 97 [1976], pp. 154–167), but it’s also possible they are two different people.
See the same query in Chapter 11 here.
See related query in
Chapter 9 and Chapter 12 over Jaan Puhvel here.
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
“There is not a single example of a
mageiros, butcher-sacrificer-cook, who is not male” (
Detienne 1989: pp. 131, 143). This means that in “the homology between political power and sacrificial practice,” women “are without the political rights reserved for male citizens, they are kept apart from the altars, meat, and blood.”
Can someone who has access to
Detienne 1989 verify the quotations and page numbers are accurately transcribed here?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Citation Needed
Quoted text:
“The essentially democratic procedure of a lottery was used to ensure the equal distribution of pieces, just as the lottery was used to allot property in new colonial ventures, select citizens for public duty and so forth.”
Do you know where this quotation is from? Can you help us add a source link and citation?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Muhammed A. Dandamaev (A Political History of the Achaemenid Empire [Leiden: 1989]) noted that this was true throughout most of the ancient world: “Meat was a luxury in most countries with the exception of Persia… Even in rich Babylonia, meat was accessible only to the wealthy, while the rest ate it only five to six times a year (mainly on temple holidays).”
Can someone with access to this text verify the quotation and add a page number?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Libor Matous (“Zu den Ausdrucken fur ‘Zugaben’ in den vorsargonischen Grundstuck-kaufurkunden,” Archiv Orientalni, Vol. 22 [1954], p. 442), cited in Meir Malul (Studies in Mesopotamian Legal Symbolism [Neukirchen-Vluyn: 1988], p. 373), found in the meal and its associated gifts a legally binding ritual, “the first traces of the later Nichtanfechtungs-klausel [non-contestability clause] intended to prevent any future claims from other right holders beside the seller.”
Can someone with access to the texts (Matous and Malul) verify the quotation and citation details?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Joseph Fontenrose (“The Cult of Apollo and the Games at Delphi,” in Wendy J. Raschke [ed.],
The Archaeology of the Olympics [Madison, Wisconsin: 1988]: p. 129) noted that on the retaining wall of Delphi’s stadium was inscribed “a law forbidding the taking of wine from the stadium and providing penalties for violations. Anyone who took wine out had to propitiate the god for whom it was intended, offer sacrifice to him, and pay a fine of five
drachmas, about a dollar in gold or silver under the gold standard, a fairly heavy fine in classical
Hellas. The inscription… shows that rites of worship were performed in the stadium in honor of several gods; the wine was intended for libations.”
Can someone with access to Fontenrose (1988) (in Raschke [1988]) verify this quotation?
Query: 6. The Distributive Justice of Group Feasts and Banquets
Verify Citation
Quoted text:
Cicero (Laws II.8) wrote that citizens had to abstain from litigation, and slaves were supposed to be excused from labor, much as on modern Sundays in Christianity or the Jewish Sabbath.
Can someone verify this citation’s details (ideally with a source link) and concept cited?
